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But he so far has not decided to. so far, laura, he has hesitated and has been willing to negotiate or at least have conversations with people as they have come through moscow. >> well, to extend that analogy of poker, you've got to know when to hold them and when to fold them sometimes. is there an off-ramp? this is a lot of gamesmanship and though we're learning there is perhaps the ability to have a force go in with enough force and presence thatif this is not bluff. but is there a way out, or are we on a track and a path that is irreversibility? >> it's not irreversible. president biden an...

And has been willing to negotiate or at least have conversations with people as they have come through moscow. >> well, to extend that analogy of poker, you've got to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em sometimes. is there an off-ramp for putin right now? obviously, this is a lot of gamesmanship, and although we are learning that perhaps there is as you mentioned the idea of the ability to have a force go in with enough force and presence that this is not a bluff. but is there a way out or are we on a track and a path that is irreversible? >> it's not irreversible. there is a way out. p...