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Did you guys know that? has this -- what i'm trying to figure out is what are we learning publicly and what do you guys already know? the three amigos anecdote. was that a known anecdote already? >> well, what i can tell you because we've released many of volkar's text messages is that volkar and sondland played a critical part in ukraine foreign policy acting in the interest of donald trump and his personal lawyer rudy giuliani. and that was contra to this separate legitimate foreign policy track that others at the state department were trying to run. that is what has been of such concern by ...

John mccain, and he sees the foreign policy acting in a very fickle and confused way right now. he thought he had a public service to speak up, he did, and it reminded me of eisenhower's farewell address in a sense that he is warning the country to beware of having your government behave in a rerp rehenceable right-wing nationalistic manner. >> tim, one of the points he made is don't turn away from the world you helped organize. he said that in his speech. and here he was asked to talk about really this return, the nonproductivity of the version of the attitude of the '30s. that sort of turnin...