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>> really? >> they don't believe, they don't believe that what he did should be -- especially because we're on the eve of another political remedy. >> so if we weren't on the eve of an election, you're saying they would support impeachment? >> i'm saying that in the clinton instance, there was no remedy. it was in a second term. so that made it more likely if you wanted to try to remedy. in this case there is a remedy that doesn't take it out of the hands of the american people. >> but the constitution doesn't say unless an election is less than a year away. the constitution says you should be...

More than just the issue with ukraine, if it does come to articles of impeachment, that it would be obstruction of justice from the mueller report would be involved as well? >> there was clearly obstruction of justice. it was spelled out in the mueller report. he chose not to pursue it because of the guidelines within the department of justice about not indicting a sitting president. but i don't think we're going to walk down that path. i think we're staying very focused on the ukraine phone call. >> on the argument that many republicans are making and certainly tomorrow it seems like what the...

I'm suggesting that republicans who have varying degrees of discomfort with this, who don't want to impeach the president may prefer to say as a messaging tactic the american people should have a say in this, not the partisans in washington. >> do you remember when congressman rooney came out from florida and said i'm going to be around longer. looking at people, my grandchildren, and i want to able to tell them where i was in this moment. i actually think as people start to turn, that's the kind of messaging that will be effective. >> we have to take a quick break. we're going to be around fo...

You don't have any firsthand information. we know there are three people who know exactly what happened. one is named giuliani. one is the guys -- chief of staff mulvaney and the third is -- >> bolton. >> bolton. and what's happened here? they all three have been called. the president said no, you must not talk. so the republicans then come up and say well you only have hearsay. well, come on. stop treating us so stupidly like we're children. >> the other argument on the hearsay thing is there were a lot of folks doing a lot of somersaults in order to execute the president's policy. and so if ...