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There was a little bit of sarcasm here and the very sort of forward posture of the u.s. government in terms of the way this is being discussed here. >> well, i think the situation is serious. but it's also, martha, it's showing to me, if you think about it, president biden uses a lot of very strong adjectives about sanctions, devastating and serious they'll be. but we don't deliberate the issues in congress. we're not engaged with businesses because if you want to have a serious sanction for long-term, it's going to affect all of us. we don't have a discussion. think about it. last week hey ha...

Th statement. they have some concerns at the level of tension in the -- if you will, asian theatre has now just gone up by a major level. you're saying no, though. why are you a little bit more, if you will, pragmatic about what has just happened? >> i think i'm more pragmatic, if you want to call it that, because this is really all geared around the mar-a-lagoa summit, which is coming up between presidents trump and xi next month. and that's really what all of this show is about. to try to send signals of american concern so that the chinese will get on board and take a little bit more forwar...

Considering cutting our nuclear, strategic forces by as much as 80%. can you believe that the american people will stand by for this, again if we're going in this election cruel when he is clearly putting the nation's defense at risk. >> it's a hard argument for them to make when there is so many nuclear activity happening all around the world in places that are not friendly with the united states. they have not made a good case for it. i feel like do you want to have a place in the world where you are in a position of leadership. only reason people respect you, you have more than they do. >> ...

Considering cutting our nuclear, strategic forces by as much as 80%. can you believe that the american people will stand by for this, again if we're going in this election cruel when he is clearly putting the nation's defense at risk. >> it's a hard argument for them to make when there is so many nuclear activity happening all around the world in places that are not friendly with the united states. they have not made a good case for it. i feel like do you want to have a place in the world where you are in a position of leadership. only reason people respect you, you have more than they do. >> ...