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Distillation of what mark's reporting demonstrates. >> unfortunately, i'm not sure i agree with that. i mean, it's shapeful. it's unpatriotful, it's inappropriate. i'm not sure it's illegal for the following reason. in the constitution the only thing that trumps the pardon power is impeachment. so, congress could decide they want to impeach and remove a president from office for improperly using his pardon power. i'm not sure there are checks and limits on the president's ability to extend pardon to individuals in the criminal system. to the extent mueller is going to use it, it will be mood m...

Particularly significant in the mueller filing are those six words, and had such ties in 2016. prosecutors had said previously that a long-time manafort and gates associate had ties to russian intel, but they had never said those ties remained in place during the 2016 campaign. joining us at the table nick, "the new york times" political reporter and msnbc contributor, and elise jordan, former aide in the bush white house now time magazine columnist and msnbc analyst. jeremy and frank are still on board. frank, let me start with you. with your analysis in terms of the significance in the inves...

Years. and he's bragged about that and also the way he used the trump organization and michael cohen and i think investigators looking the broader issues will analysis that. but a political point, back to frank's point earlier about the work of law enforcement. and the respect for the rule of law because ultimately if the president is paying hush money or he's trying to get out of his legal responsibilities, it goes to his fundamental respect for the rule of law. and look, trump is not on the ballot in november but trumpism is and what about trumpism is that you undermine the rule of law, and ...

Far as to use his awesome constitutional power to shut witnesses up, it shows you just how far the president believes he's in trouble. >> frank, let me give you the last word in this part of the conversation. we haven't spent as much time talking about paul manafort. paul manafort has not entered into any sort of agreement with bob mueller. there is an ongoing debate about why that might be, whether he's simply not that useful or whether he's -- there are lots of theories. you had some of the best ones. talk about the significance of a pardon for paul manafort who it seems like every month the...

>> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. we'll see what happens. let's see. i can say this. when you look at what's gone on with the fbi and with the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> frank fa glues i, this seems to connect the dots in the president's firing of jim comey, the president's enthusiasm for the firing of andrew mccabe. the president certainly has laid the foundation in tweet after tweet in news cycle after news cycle, in coordination with fox news night after night, to have a narrative already established for what he just described, pardoning m...