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And again, his own officials are not calling out the veracity of that reporting. i think that the power to pardon is something that the president didn't know a ton about when he came into the white house but he's been very enamored of that potential power once he fully grasped it. and we saw in several instances in the mueller report in which he -- a bunch of aides stopped him from obstructing justice. i think that the president doesn't always understand the boundaries of governing and government and we've seen that time and time again with instances in the mueller report with this idea that y...

Potential power once he fully grasped it. and we saw in several instances in the mueller report in which he -- a bunch of aides stopped him from obstructing justice. i think that the president doesn't always understand the boundaries of governing and government and we've seen that time and time again with instances in the mueller report with this idea that you can just seize land from people and sort of ask for forgiveness later and do pardons. i think that is part of the president's governing strategy. >> gene, what do you make of it? the idea apparently coming from the white house here, the ...

Instances in the mueller report with this idea that you can just seize land from people and sort of ask for forgiveness later and do pardons. i think that is part of the president's governing strategy. >> gene, what do you make of it? the idea apparently coming from the white house here, the idea that yes, maybe he said the words but the words weren't meant -- the interpretation of the words coming through these news stories might be off a little bit. >> that's sort of the go-to move of what you would call the communication side of the white house which is not a functioning communications shop...