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And chris whiple, author of the gate keepers. how the white house chiefs of staff define every presidency. so, look, clearly between mulvaney and this week's testimony, democrats feel their case is stronger now. i want to play for you one member of congress who was in the room all four days for all the testimony talking to me earlier today about what he learned behind closed doors. >> the metaphor that i like to offer is that it's as though we're using an old 35 millimeter camera and we're rotating the lens in order for the picture to come into clearer focus, higher resolution. we're already a...

Determine whether you should go forward with impeachment or not. and then going forward with impeachment is very different than having a trial in the senate. i want the facts to be solid, understood, recognized by all parties as facts, not some parties. and let's just go forward with it. but i just think the process has been too closed, too incestuous. >> look the name of your book is gate keepers, how white house chiefs of staff define every presidency. how does mick mulvaney if at all help define this presidency? >> well, it was an incredible performance and i couldn't agree more with andy a...

Snake-filled moat. but a closer look inside that meeting also reveals a leader with an unwavering commitment to curbing migration into the united states no matter the cost. the piece reads in part, quote, in the oval office that, march afternoon a 30-minute meeting extended to more than two hours as mr. trump's team tried desperately to placate him. you are making me look like an idiot as multiple officials in the room described it. i ran on this. it's my issue. joining me now is chris whipple is the author of "the gatekeepers." i don't know what you're going to do when you update your book to...

In a recent book, milan vishnev shows that politicians who have been charged of a crime are more likely to win elections in india. in tribal politics, people actually celebrate leaders who break the law, because they are supposedly doing so to help their tribe. political parties used to act as gatekeepers and norm-setters, keeping out populists and demagogues and forcing their members to adhere to certain rules and norms. but politicians can now raise money and gain a following outside of the party, through direct appeals to the public, using social media, to exploit the very anger and emotion...

Populus leaders who play on their fears, seize on scapegoats and promise to take decisive action. add to this the rising reality of tribal politics, the sense that each of us is on a team and our team is always in the right. tribalism is the enemy of institutions, norms and the rule of law. in a recent book milan vischnov shows that politicians charged with a crime are more likely to win elections in india. in tribal politics people actually celebrate leaders who break the law because they are supposedly doing so to help their tribe. political parties used to act as gate keepers and norm seter...