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A meaningful impact on our election. >> that's a lie. that's a lie. >> you live in a separate fact bubble. it is not a lie, steve. >> hold on. hold on. [ overlapping voices ] >> nobody can hear when everybody is talking over. steve, you brought up birtherism. that was a donald trump lie. you said you don't see him lying. you just compared birtherism as kind of a bad thing as being kind of a not genuine thing. that was a thing of the president's. >> an incredibly bad thing. >> that was a thing of the president's. >> much to his discredit. >> and the president won't -- >> can i answer, rick? >> ...

So i think it's a bad bet to say that michael cohen doesn't have things beyond just his assertion. i also think it's a bad bet to think robert mueller doesn't have those things. >> right. >> and overlaps of those things. i think we're going to end up in a situation where, you know, he said/he said. it's going to redound to the dark-haired scuzzy guy rather than the blonde scuzzy guy. >> if it turns out to be true that president trump knew about this meeting ahead of time and approved it, do you see that as a big problem for the president, if for no other reason obviously he would be caught in ...

The real lie is that russia somehow won this election for donald trump, that russia somehow convinced voters in wisconsin and ohio and michigan that they were duped somehow into voting for donald trump. that is the actual grand lie that is being told in washington, d.c. and in mainstream media all day, every day. it's a damnable lie. >> steve, i think the grander lie has to do with total hypocrisy. >> and is the birtherism of the left. this is the new birtherism. because we want -- >> the old birtherism was by the guy he said doesn't lie. >> steve, the difference between birtherism and russia ...

>> the old birtherism was by the guy he said doesn't lie. >> steve, the difference between birtherism and russia -- [ overlapping voices ] >> the difference between birtherism and russia, steve, is that russia actually helped donald trump, and barack obama was never born in kenya. >> really? >> there's smoke and there's fire. >> how did russia help -- >> rick, here's the thing. >> oh, i'm sorry, steve. i know you don't believe our intelligence services, every single one of them. asserted not only did russia interfere in our election, have a meaningful impact on our election. >> that's a lie. t...