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Plane, you know find the voice recorders and the cockpits and that's when you start piecing together this whole tragedy. >> that's right. so important. andrew stevens, thank you, from surabaya live for us. i want to get more now on what evidence is telling us so far and what effect the weather could have played in this tragedy. joining me now, cnn aviation analyst david soucie and on the phone we have an aviation analyst, as well as a former pilot. the sydney morning herald reporting now supposedly leaked information about the plane, saying flight 8501 was traveling at a ground speed of around...

Flying into which would appear on the ground he would be going slow. >> ground speed in and of itself doesn't tell us enough. we need to know more. colonel, what about the incline? this article says that the plane appeared to be climbing at an almost impossibly steep lift. >> well the steep angle which it appeared the plane could have -- another scenario from david is the plane stalled. if the plane was at altitude and then it stalled at that high deck angle or high angle of attack the plane would fall. there is some forward -- if the vector is going this way, then there is forward airspeed on...

Than per second. >> yeah. >> an aircraft -- an aircraft at that altitude can't climb at that sort of rate. the only way any rate of climb of that nature could have happened would have been through an updraft in a severe thunderstorm. and even that is you know an extreme figure. the figure that you gave 70 miles an hour, 63 knots, would have been a forward ground speed. that's below the normal flying speed of an airline, it suggests that the aircraft is stalled and was literally falling basically down. so those are the interpretations you can give to those figures as far as i can see. it is ent...

Because the relative air around the airplane as you're going down is what you're measuring with indicated air speed w-the air speed according to the aircraft. if you measure the distance from where it started its descent to the time it ended that's what they are talking about the speed. it went from here to here but at a steep angle it's only going that far. so on the ground speed it looks very very low but the air speed which we don't have in this report could be very very high. >> of course that's going to impact the rate that it enters the water or hits the ground or where it ends up crashi...

A very low forward ground speed, but as the other gentleman mentioned in the case a high air speed, in which case the airplane wouldn't have been flyable, but if the airplane goes into the sea, it's going to break up. there's no question about that. so you know what we're talking about here are the violent winds you get inside a thunderstorm these are vertical winds, upwards and downwards rather than the typical jet stream where you could get 100 or even 200 knots over the pacific. but there were no very strong horizontal winds in this area so when you fly into this sort of extreme weather, yo...