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Cohen to lie. and this isn't just the word of michael cohen a convicted felon and liar. he this is a the special counsel's office learned through interviews with multiple witnesses from the trump organization and internal company e-mails, text messages, and a cache of other documents. >> yes. i mean, i think that this was an implication that was hiding in the shadows when cohen pleaded guilty to lying to congress. you know, we knew then that mueller had the information to back this up and now, you know, i don't think it's really that much of a surprise, though it is shocking to see it in writi...

Very different tone that he says he shared with the president about mueller than the memo we know that he shared, which seemed legally to be very skeptical of aspects of the mueller probe. >> well, they're not necessarily contradictory, and i didn't have the chance to watch the hearing today so i'm seeing this for the first time, but he is saying here that bob mueller personally is a decent guy and an honest man. that's not inconsistent with saying in his memo that the -- that a large part of the investigation is not legitimate legally. it's a legal view. and that could lead to him c constrain...

Trump says, look, i've been shooting the moon all my life. i'm not going to play by your rules. i'm going to pick my guy and i'm going to dare you to get rid of him and i'm going to keep him there. if this guy mueller gets free rein, i'm dead. that seems to be trump's approach. >> certainly. if you're donald trump and you're trying to pick out a loyal fall guy it is matt whitaker. matt whitaker could do all the dirty work over the next six to eight weeks and then trump could let him go and actually nominate somebody for the next two years and make whitaker the fall guy on terminating the muell...

Sekulow. i bet a lot of people wouldn't be concerned with the procedure like you go in with search warrants and you try to -- you drag people out of bed to get information when you have a warrant. okay. that's bad. that's horrible. but where things are ast blatant as they are right now with back channeling from a guy who was let go by the fbi. who was getting the fake dossier written. pal with bruce ohr and his wife. they are making money on it they are now shivering in their boots that comey is fired.so how can this guy mueller absolutely or anyone else continue to investigate and get up in t...

Sekulow. i bet a lot of people wouldn't be concerned with the procedure like you go in with search warrants and you try to -- you drag people out of bed to get information when you have a warrant. okay. that's bad. that's horrible. but where things are as blatant as they are right now with back channeling from a guy who was let go by the fbi. who was getting the fake dossier written. pal with bruce ohr and his wife. they are making money on it they are now shivering in their boots that comey is fired. how can this guy mueller absolutely or anyone else continue to investigate and get up in the ...