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And so what leads you to believe -- you called me and said, i think people are starting to pay attention. why do you think people are starting now? >> because there's some things that have happened that just kind of have hit social media in such a way that people can get it. it's like yelling at that or attacking that woman, distinguished woman ambassador. people are like, that's not right. and then overhearing a phone conversation, and then tomorrow vindman is going to be testifying, and he's going to have -- you know, he's going to have his uniform on. he's going to look terrific. these are ...

Attacking that woman, distinguished woman ambassador. people are like, that's not right. and then overhearing a phone conversation, and then tomorrow vindman is going to be testifying, and he's going to have -- you know, he's going to have his uniform on. he's going to look terrific. these are the kinds of things -- >> are you hearing people talk about it, though? i heard you on that when you said about the witnesses. >> i think -- i'll tell you what i hope will happen over thanksgiving. i hope people will gather together. they're not going to yell at each other about trump, although that's ha...

Neera tanden and ben wittes. let me get to you, mike mcfaul, very quickly. i want to from the point of view of president zelenskiy. i thought today -- i thought he deserves a gold star for walking a tight rope. forget -- let's take all of our politics out of this. that guy today did his best to try to not anger president trump and not somehow takes sides in this back and forth. how do you think he handled what was a near impossible moment for him? >> i think he did well. he sounded a lot better today than he looked in that transcript, by the way, or memorandum of conversation, let's be clear. ...

Foreign policy view, the president obviously taking a more conciliatory approach with things like russia, with iran he was saying he was willing to talk to them. and just being we've had three summits with the north koreans. this is a number of traditional republicans a very unsettling thing. so john bolton trying to reach out to some of those folks and saying, listen, this is what we're working with and you make the decision. >> here's the president of the united states, our commander in chief. what's he going to do now? he dumped this guy john bolton and hires a new guy today. at the same ti...

Are you calling people out when they say antimuslim things but this person shouldn't be fired? >> he did aantimuslim stuff. for me the question was, we're adults. we know when someone is being playful or hateful. i don't know the young man. yang's point is he would sit down. let's talk to him. let's find out if he's a bigot or someone who can be reached. that's my question. this guy today apparently met with snl. whatever conversation was not enough for them. my old friends to want to work with them on the 17th floor. these comments he said would have made his life uncomfortable over there. th...