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Debts, you know? look. if i sell a guy a load of wheat, okay, which happens when i have wheat to sell, and he doesn't pay me, do you think i'm going to trust that guy ever? this is a total loss of credibility for the united states. it removes us as being the economic leader in the world and gives the keys to china. it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me, rachel. >> do you think that what's happening now is essentially a game of chicken, trying to get attention, trying to perhaps leverage some kind of ransom, although, we don't know what the ran some would be, or do you think that this...

There's nothing that compares to a self-inflicted wound like increasing the interest on your debt for every family in america, which is what would happen if we don't pay our debts. look, if i sell a guy a load of wheat, okay, which happens when i have wheat to sell, and he doesn't pay me, do you think i'm going to trust that guy ever this is a total loss of credibility for the united states it removes us as being the economic leader in the world and gives the keys to china. it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me, rachel. >> do you think that what's happening now is essentially a game ...