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Megyn: and there was a real controversy at the time about why they weren't ordering -- why did they not order dakota meyer back in there to save those lives and there was discipline handed down to others. he was the brave one that said i'm not letting those guys die, i'm going back in there, we saw president obama at the white house and this incredible ceremony and now you've got this employer saying he's a war hero but mentally unstable. we're going to have a debate on this in kelly's court, we'll talk about this case and what is likely to happen in it, we're also going to talk about the fact...

Who gave the mine a clean bill of health. in the same way that as you know, there were plenty of regulators at lehman brothers, at aig, at fannie and freddie. but there's so many loopholes. and that's why, as we're looking at the bill going through the senate, that's what we need to keep our eye on. the loopholes. because it was the loopholes at the mine and the mining legislation, that made it possible, despite the fact that this mine had over 500 violations in one year alone, not to be shut down. because they kept challenging them. >> kevin, how does that work? if i'm a mine operator and i'm...