And we've been seeing arc wel r ers. does it make sense to you and what does it add up to in your mind? >> two things. equipment -- three things. equipment to be used for. that is breaching and breaking, lifting and shifting and shoring. so the shoring is probably the timber and maybe other metal products used for to hold the structure up and so that it won't move any further in the case of an aftershock, as you start to cut away things. the breaching and breaking is the fact there's not going to be any complete parts between you and the victim. if it was, they would have got out already. that...