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Being placed on the electronic wait list, you were actually being placed on a piece of paper in somebody's desk drawer? >> correct. >> reporter: is that -- the secret list? >> yes. that would be the secret list. >> reporter: there is no doubt in your mind that was a secret list? >> no doubt. >> reporter: the secret list began in early 2013, she says, because of a waiting list for treatment here, that was simply getting out of hand. 1,700 veterans were on it. winter says, you couldn't get an appointment for at least nine months. and with 40 patients coming in each day, the list and the waits we...

>> reporter: there is no doubt in your mind that was a secret list? >> no doubt. >> reporter: the secret list began in early 2013, she says, because of a waiting list for treatment here, that was simply getting out of hand. 1,700 veterans were on it. winter says, you couldn't get an appointment for at least nine months. and with 40 patients coming in each day, the list and the waits were growing longer. that was a problem. because nationwide the va had set a goal, every patient had to be seen within 14 days. the solution at the phoenix va according to dewinter and others inside this hospital, ...

Appointments from veterans seeking care and hide them. what happened to those people? >> they went into a desk drawer. >> reporter: if you called for a new employment thinking you were being placed on the electronic wait list, you were actually being placed on a piece of paper in somebody's desk drawer? >> correct. >> reporter: is that -- the secret list? >> yes. that would be the secret list. >> reporter: there is no doubt in your mind that was a secret list? >> no doubt. >> reporter: the secret list began in early 2013, she says, because of a waiting list for treatment here, that was simply ...