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Bannon goes before the grand jury, he's not going to have a lawyer. he's going to have to testify under oath and there's going to be a transcript. and i don't think that the reason that he's going before the grand jury is because he wants to show loyalty to the president. that doesn't add up to me. i don't think that's the advice his excellent counsel would give him. it's too risky, frankly, it's too risky to the client, to bannon. i think, clearly, bob mueller believes that he needs bannon a little bit more of a hostile setting because bannon has some information. either about the trump tower...

Vachk ka trump when she was going against roy moore and it was bannon who said what about the allegations about her dad and that 13-year-old? ivanka was a fount of bad advice during the campaign. why would steve bannon bring up this you know far left, back corner story that hasn't made it to the forefront of president trump and a 13-year-old girl? why would bannon do that? >> a couple things going on there. two, their relationship. yes, they do speak. and what i found was interesting is that a white house official told me that it is president trump who initiated most of the phone calls to stev...

Newspaper of all places and he said well, actually, i did it deliberately in order to divert the media's attention from their obsession with charlottesville. so this is guy who kind of makes it up as he goes along. that reminds of somebody else as well. very interesting, complicated guy. and i came away thinking that the only reason he could possibly be so reckless is that he believes that as long as trump is continuing down this road of getting into bed with white supremacists, he needs bannon because bannon is the architect of that strategy. >> it's a fascinating piece. everybody should read...