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chuck rosenberg, matt miller joins us, former special advisor on communications for the nsa, and former chief spokesperson for the department of justice. and jeff mason, white house correspondent for reuters. ryan, you had the very difficult challenge of speaking to us moments after this document dropped. you've had a bit more time, tell us what else we've learned. >> i mean, i think it's significant, especially in those photos that you discussed in the last hour, that show just how this was organized. i think the key part of this is essentially, them not trusting the trump team. bec...

for msnbc news, -- matt miller joins us, former special advisor on communications for the nsa, and former chief spokesperson for the department of justice. and jeff mason, white house correspondent for reuters. ryan, you had the very difficult challenge of speaking to us moments after this document dropped. you've had a bit more time, tell us what else we've learned. >> i mean, i think it's significant, especially those photos that you discussed in the last hour, that show just how this was organized. i think the key part of this is essentially, them not trusting the trump team. beca...

tell us what else you've learned. >> i mean, i think it's significant especially the photos yout discussed last hou that show just how this was organized. i think a key part of this is essentially them not trusting the trump team because after they had that initial grand jury subpoena that was delivered, you had this filing that was signed by a trump lawyer, name is redacted in this latest filing, so weis don't know based on the filing who it was, but has been reported publicly about this trump lawyercl said there was n responsive documents left. lo and behold when they went and exec...

Hard it is to prove intent. it's the hardest thing to prove in these types of cases. not that someone did something, but that some someone did something intentionally. but when you cover that thing up, when you lie about that thing, when you conceal that thing from the department of justice and the fbi, it tends to prove intent. if it was a genuine mistake, you would say immediately, oh my goodness, stephanie, my bad, i realized that i had a whole bunch of classified information in my basement, here you go. i don't want it, it's yours, you should have a back and to matt's point, that's not rea...

Prove intent. my bad, i realize i have a whole bunch of classified information in my basement. here you go. i don't want it. it's yours. you should have it back. to matt's point, that's not really a prosecutable case anymore. when you culie, when you obfusce and mislead the fbi about what it is you have, that's obstruction and helps to establish intent which is the hardest thing to prove in these types oft cases. so, matt, i understand why he was our head communicator. he's really good at this. >> matt, then how would trump make the argument, if he chose to hide the boxes, i didn't see it, it ...