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A thoughtful discourse. it's very important to be transparent with it but i don't think we handled it as a society the correct way. >> joel, the rnc spokeswoman was with me last hour and she said the fact is that ivanka had not been schooled on the rules at the beginning here. is that possible? i mean, we all recall the chaos of the trump white house in those early months in 2017 and this is all alleged to have taken place in 2017. so is it conceivable that nobody got to her and said we know your father was hammering hillary clinton on all this so on the looks of this you probably shouldn't us...

Trying to clean up reports of ivanka trump's use of a private e-mail server while hillary clinton took to twitter for a clean-up job of her own. joining us, evan siegfried and joel payne. evan, i'm going to start with you here first. let's get to ivanka's e-mails. the president is doubling down on claims that his daughter's e-mail use was very innocent. do you think that's going to get her off the hook or do you think there are going to be further implications here, if not investigations have been called for we know by trey gowdy. >> this is on the level of hypocrisy. yes, hillary clinton had ...

Sprawling responsibilities to people who have never done this. that essentially proves the entire point of why the trump experiment was such a dangerous one. yes, alex, you make a good point but i think that proves the larger point -- >> are you saying it's not a well-oiled machine? >> it's not. >> jared kushner was using signal, an encrypting messaging app which delete the message. they should have known better. the defense being used is she's stupid? no. we have to hold everyone accountable. >> hold ivanka accountable but let's be thoughtful about what we did in the first place in terms of t...

They used this sometimes or that hillary clinton did, it's the overreaction to hillary clinton in the first place. the fact that three years ago that this turned into a story within the media, within the elites in washington, d.c., they used it as an excuse to bludgeon hillary clinton and destroy her chances. that i argue was the original sin here. so the reaction is not, hey, let's go and treat ivanka with the same disregard and anger that we treated hillary clinton, let's go and apologize to what we did to hillary clinton three years ago. that's the more appropriate reaction. >> evan, you me...