So, um, that's -- that's pretty horrible thing. >> i mean, speaking of the emotional aspect. i mean, i'm wondering how baby holly -- how did she survive? was she -- was she raised by some -- i mean, how did that happen? >> well, you know, this is still an ongoing-criminal investigation. but i think some of the things that they have announced were that she was raised in a happy family by people that did not have anything to do with the crime. and what we do know is she was left in a church in arizona, and that someone affiliated with that church vefrmgly adopted her after some length of time. t...