Vindman and hr mcmaster for speaking out against the former president. what can you tell us about her involvement in this group of ground swell? >> it's such a strange group. i mean, they've been at it for many, many years but what happened during the trump years was that ginni thomas started using, i think, her husband's prestige to get access to the white house. she was petitioning the white house for a long time to try to bring her friends in and when she did finally get in and she's a consultant, paid consultant and lobbyist, when she got in, she presented an enemy's list to the president ...