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With the chinese when he was making excuses for them? >> at the very least there is culpability. the research done by the bad scientists in wuhan she gives them credit, she lists the exact nih grant with a 10 disclaimer or id number listing the money and thinking the nih for the money. it is clearly gain of function, several scientists are in this field, cellular biologists who all say taking a sars virus and adding an s protein to make infect human cells is the definition of gain of function, very dangerous, shouldn't be doing it here or there but doctor fauci has denied it to this day, the p...

Outrageous conspiracy theories that were getting blurred together here. that this was a bio engineered, bio weapon and that doesn't add up. >> martha: we also don't know 100% that some version of that is not the case. there's a couple of different programs that were funded by the nih that raise these questions. if you have -- tell me what your reaction is to this. back in 2015, there was a $10 million grant for dr. barrack of unc and a doctor in the wuhan lab. they were building synthetic strands of sars that resisted all vaccines and immunotherapy. and then you have a doctor from the eco heal...

>> what she was doing was taking the spiked proteins of some viruses. the sort of knobs that come out of the surface of the virus and determine its target, the target on human cells and she was putting them into the genomes of other viruses to see how the effective was after the accident. she was doing this because virologists around the world do that so get a jump on what will happen naturally and they say this will forestall the next epidemic. >> i made clear at the outset that you don't come to a conclusion. you think the natural emergence and lab escape hiypotheses can neither be ruled out...

Made this spike protein part of the coronavirus that speaks out and actually attacks out its target on human cells or whatever -- however animal it may be infecting. she was to explore range of infectivity of these proteins from seemless range of coronaviruses. and she would swap them in one by one to sort of generic coronavirus backbone to see which spike proteins made virus most infected. that seems to have been her -- her program. and that's more or less what doctor describes in an interview he gave in december 2019 just before the pandemic hit. glark so we're funding part this lab in china...

>> you have to get them. >> china doesn't want to let you have them. >> it's knowable but we may not know because of that exact reason. # one of the big things that really caught my attention, a few months ago, when i was talking to robert redfield, was just how quickly does a virus become contagious? and what does that tell us about it? listen to how he framed it to me, chris. >> i do not believe this, somehow, came from a bat to a human. normally, when a pathogen goes to human, it takes a while for it to figure out how to become more and more efficient in human-to-human transmission. i just ...