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>> so he -- but if we take out the human factor, what else could cause the train to be traveling at twice the speed limit? >> well, the human factor is the central point here. you know, you could have a stuck throttle, but that would have shown up in the event recorder and it was not -- by the ntsb. i mean, there simply is no other explanation other than a human factor issue. >> is there a safety margin for these trains? can they travel above that 15 miles per hour limit and do this, they know they think speed is a limit to a certain amount? >> of course there is. there's always a safety margi...

December of next year. >> okay. stephanie, thank you very much for all that information. joining us now is deborah herzman, president of the national safety council and former ntsb chairman. thank you very much for being here. a train traveling at 80 miles per hour in a 30-mile-per-hour zone, how does that happen? >> unfortunately, this is something that we've seen before. and whether there's a mechanical issue, an equipment issue or a human factor issue, it's something that doesn't need to happen and something like positive train control can certainly prevent it. >> it is such a no brainer. a...