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With them to scrub the passenger list with them, and that's probably the first thing they did is go through that passenger list to make sure. no country is really prepared for, this and malaysia is relatively poor and this is a tragedy that hasn't happened in a decade anywhere, let alone in a southeast asian country ill-prepared for it. so if i was still in liaison, i would be very understanding. >> raffi ron, of all the theories that people have put out there which may have happened, which to you sound the most potentially credible? >> i think at this point in time, the level of information t...

>> well, the wild flying, the erratic flying would point to some sort of human intervention. but the problem with the data, the most recent data is the plane can't dive that fast. the plane can't even fall out of the sky that fast. and we know that from previous accidents. so we know that data is unreliable. we also note data, the directional data is unreliable because the plane can't be going north and south at the same time. so i think the problem here is to sort out what data is reliable and what isn't. factually speaking it's impossible they both are. i know the plane can't dive that fast....

If one stops working, you go to the second one. so to have a redundant system and both of them not operating, that means it was done by some human being. >> john, you also think if this new information pans out that human intervention is involved here. >> certainly the sequence of events leads one to believe that there was somebody sequentially turning things off in that airplane. i mean, there's just no other conclusion. i agree with several of the previous witnesses saying that. >> john is there an explanation of why a human doing that that is not malicious, concern about some sort of a shor...

Saying -- i want richard to get involved in this as well -- keith, let me go back to you. the more i hear from you, it sounds like foul play as opposed to some catastrophic mechanical failure caused this disaster, is that right, john? first, to you. >> yes, i believe that based on what we have available to us at this moment, that it appears human intervention has taken over this airplane. >> and keith? >> yes, human intervention, whether we want to label it foul play or, you know, something certainly occurred in the cockpit to reprogram the route. >> and what's the latest you're hearing from e...

Off. >> and you say you can know that definitively why? >> well, because you have two transponders. if one stops working, you go to the second one. so to have a redundant system and both of them not operating, that means it was done by some human being. >> john, you also think if this new information pans out that human intervention is involved here. >> certainly the sequence of events leads one to believe that there was somebody sequentially turning things off in that airplane. i mean, there's just no other conclusion. i agree with several of the previous witnesses saying that. >> john is the...