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We don't have to look at a single number that, when it's averaged, leaves out a human reality. you know the old joke about the economist. he had his feet in the fridge and his head in the oven and on average he was feeling fine. the irony of the joke for me is that it doesn't tell you anything about the economist's life. was he happy, was he married, was he successful? was he satisfied? that's the kind of stuff we really need to delve into. we're going to need to develop a range of indicators, not just the volume of stuff, but the real quality of people's lives. the idea of growth isn't just a...

Dealt with that you'd have to deal with in a $4 trillion deal. if you have the politics to do this, i would think you have the politics to get a bigger deal. >> simpson-bowles, $4 trillion, that's still a small deal. when you look at the fact that over the past four years, we've had deaf silts far exceeding $4 trillion. and as you move forward, the deficits are going to go even higher. >> oh, yeah. even a maximum deal, i think, all of us would agree is not going to happen. simpson-bowles is not going to go through. even that would not be commensurate with the question. and i think what exacerb...

Mini-deal or something like simpson-bowles. but if you get a mini-deal, a lot of the same issues will have to be dealt with in a $4 trillion deal. if you have the politics to do this, i would think you'd have the politics to do the bigger deal. >> that's still a small deal when you look at the past four years. as you move forward, the deficits are going to go even higher. >> oh, yeah. even a maximum deal, i think, all of us would agree is not going to happen. simpson-bowles is not going to go through. and even that would not be commensurate with the question. and i think what exacerbates this ...

That document what that strategy is. in north carolina, it's not working. one of the things that we're seeing that's really extraordinary is reverend barber has been incredibly vocal in his on suggest to amendment one has been touring the state to get that message out there. and he's joined by african american clergy from across faith's traditions. and i think we're seeing the discourse start to change. now, at the same time, i think efforts are being made for this to be a racially devicive issue. but i think there are some promising things happening that's actually the human reality of this. ...

When i was in pakistan in october, i saw the human reality of it and there may be some people out there who trust to get it right all of the time. i'm afraid i don't. i was with this group of people and i was the token american. forgive me with the accent, i know it sounds british, but i'm american. the american official line was that we did not kill any innocent people. they just snorted at me. and one of the people i met there was a kid who was 16 years old and was angry because one of his cousins had been killed with a drone missile. three days later, our government killed that child. i had...