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Say about getting what they want at this point. >> yeah. the only problem is -- this is a little initially going to team like heresy, the truth is everybody needs to pay more taxes, not just the rich. that's a good start. we won't get out of the problem to raise taxes across the board to go back to what bill clinton had in his taxes. if we don't do that, the problem is pressure is on spending even more. i think we need to make the defense cuts. we want to minimize human services cuts. the best way to do that is go back to clinton era taxes. i actually have mixed feelings about striking a deal ...

>> i know a guy personally who had to put a hip replacement off and was -- eventually ended up on crutches and in a wheelchair until he turned 65. and if he had to wait until 67, it would be two more years in that condition. this is a terrible idea. there may be ways to save money on medicare. i think there are. this is a really bad one. >> my sense of what's going on here is that nothing is going on here. is that john boehner knows we're going to go off the curb on january 1st, the democrats and the president know, it's inevitable we go off the curb. but as responsible men of government, they...

>> i know a guy personally who had to put a hip replacement off and was -- eventually ended up on crutches and in a wheelchair until he turned 65. and if he had to wait until 67, it would be two more years in that condition. this is a terrible idea. there may be ways to save money on medicare. i think there are. this is a really bad one. >> my sense of what's going on here is that nothing is going on here. is that john boehner knows we're going to go off the curb on january 1st, the democrats and the president know, it's inevitable we go off the curb. but as responsible men of government, they...

The bill, and i think it's going to be all of us. you go back to bill clinton's tax rates which we did pretty well under bill clinton, you cut some defense spending, which isn't going to get cut otherwise because the defense contractors are in practically every congressional district in the place. and you do make some human services cuts which i don't like but everybody's going to have to put something on the table here. >> steve rattner, i'm sure you would beg to differ with what howard dean had to say as far as the fiscal cliff goes. he says it's not a fiscal cliff, it's more like a fiscal s...

Think they wouldn't be quite as many human services cuts. we need to cut spending here. we don't need to talk about social security, because that doesn't have a direct effect on the deficit. we need to talk about medicare and revenue increases. one of the things i like about the president's budget, over the long term, he deals with the deficit. the way he does it, he acknowledges 60% of the deficit in 2018 will be a result of bush tax cuts. so the republicans have a budget that is much, much larger in terms of deficit. >> do you see a philosophy of governing in this budget? i am having trouble...