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something that judge merchan can continue up to the time of sentencing. >> i'm just thinking about the judge in the hearing with the gag orders where he said -- and none of the weight that was going on was lost on him and who this is in front of him. and he said, i don't want to send you to prison, but i have a job to do. we don't know if he's going -- the next thing i think the country's going to be waiting for is that, and what does prison for a former president look like? can it be done in fort brag in a room? >> i don't snow. >> unbelievable. unbelievable thought. thank you not j...

Early summer days of 1863, and we are in a different world altogether. abraham lincoln decide to do different things about emancipation -- slavery lasts, arguably, into the 20th century. this is a contingent, conditional enterprise we are engaged in. it's his perennial struggle between our better angels and our worst instincts. and it's an entirely human undertaking. i find the whataboutism that you alluded to to be utterly unconvincing, and it proves to me a lot more about the genuine motives and interests of those who make the argument. i believe that, as -- i am not a democrat -- but, as yo...

American presidency at vanderbilt university. he occasionally adviser this president on historical matters, jon meacham we. gentlemen, good evening to you both. we flipped a coin, i'm going to start with the same question to both of you. john your first. as long as we have all been alive, in my memory, our presidents have started the state of the union address, my fellow americans in the state of our union is strong. can we say that right about now? >> i don't think so. that's the problem of the age. democracy is very counterintuitive. this is a human undertaking. we are all fall, and were all...

Address with some form of, my fellow americans, the state of our union is strong. can we say that right about now, john? >> i don't think so. certainly not with candor and with confidence. and that's the problem of the age. you know, democracy's very counterintuitive. this is a human undertaking. we're all fallen. we're all frail. we're all fallible. and what is a democracy but the sum of its parts? the word means the rule of the many. and the rule of the many can lead to complications and chaos. the remarkable thing about the united states, i think, and i think we've all -- all three of us ha...

Impartial because it's a human undertaking. the founders were trying to create a newtonian sphere. there would be a harmonious hole. this is darwinian. you hope we evolve. you hope we progress. jury is still out on that. but it's a -- the tension within the republican, lower case r, structure was present from the beginning. madison, jefferson, hamilton i don't think would have foreseen the absolute nature of this party structure but they fully understood faction. they fully understood there would be coalitions of interest. what they hoped for by dividing sovereignty so definitively,