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>> bill: the point i made to ms. megyn was that the criticism about the thumping the bible is power-based thee thought it was personal. it's not personal. if i wasn't successful in what i do, nobody would care what i said. >> that's absolutely true. >> bill: this is the left wing and right wing idealogues trying to diminish the power of this program and the power of this network. all right? that's what it is about. people should be very clear on that. >>. no the right wing and the left wing are different in this sense. i know exactly why the right wing idealogues, no offense, bill, but i know ...

>> right. >> bill: the point i made to ms. megyn was that the criticism about the thumping the bible is power-based thee thought it was personal. it's not personal. if i wasn't successful in what i do, nobody would care what i said. >> that's absolutely true. >> bill: this is the left wing and right wing idealogues trying to diminish the power of this program and the power of this network. all right? that's what it is about. people should be very clear on that. >>. no the right wing and the left wing are different in this sense. i know exactly why the right wing idealogues, no offense, bill, b...

Fundamentally a pragmatist or idealogue. this makes clear he is an idealogue and he has been all along with occasional nod toward pragmatism. what struck me about the speech, it was basically a 2 # 00 word sell -- 2200 word activist of government and the good that government can do. it paid scant attention to the cost of -- >> bret: wait a second. >> thank you, sir. appreciate you. thank you. [ inaudible ] >> bret: you never know what you will hear in the little moments. i always get to hear steve hayes. [ laughter ] >> finishing my thought he spent time celebrating government without talking ...

He thinks that is a winning line in what is coming up as a debate. >> i'm shocked that people are just discovering he is an idealogue to the left. in a inauguration speech, the first one he said i'm here to change america and spelled it out. healthcare, energy, education. he has done healthcare. that's fairly radical. 18% of the economy. now he is talking about energy. the second thing. if you took an outsider and said what is the main issue of our time? it's the crisis of the entitlement state. it's insolvent. it's advanced in europe where they are out of money and we are going to get there i...

That's part of the legacy is he trying to build, bill. i think it's very important for him to look at spending at part of this package. but let me just tell you, i don't care he is an idealogue. i don't think he is any far left winger as you apparently do. i think? this guy is a brag pragmatist. he has won two majorities of the american people and you don't do that if you are far left or far right in this country. >> bill: i don't know. we have a changing electorate as we pointed out. i'm not so sure about that mary katharine, do you think that the president, a, number one an idealogue and num...