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There in the ethos. back to thish of t issue of the indictment. even without an indictment mueller can make a recommendation to the house of representatives, a lot of political fallout, they can recommend impeachment and on and on and on. what trouble could that cause for the president? >> yeah. i think it's really important, and laura always does a really good job of differentiating here. there's a legal path, right? and that's sort of the indictment path. and then there's a political path and that's the impeachment path. we're not on either of those paths yet. but one and the other are not t...

Fellow at nyu law school. hue hewitt, also a lawyer and msnbc political analyst. let me start with you, liz. we heard from john mccain, bringing up the specter of watergate. we have to start with obstruction of justice. there are different rules for a president of the united states and somebody like you or me, a civilian, but is there anything that you see here, hard, solid evidence, that would lead you to go down that path? >> well, two paths here. one is a criminal path. the other is the impeachment path. we have substantial evidence at least suggesting that the president has engaged in an a...

When there's a crisis, economic collapse, a massive crisis abroad. president trump is trying to go at the pillars of democratic society. it is not just the media, it is the court, the opposition party, his own people in the legislature. it's the intelligence branches. all of these set up a situation where he's going to say, you know, god forbid there's a terrorist attack and i'm in charge here and i don't care what the courts or kon says an enthat's when we have a crisis and the institutions need to push become and say, no, mr. president, that's not how it works in america. that's when you go ...