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Upon him and also just, why couldn't donald trump pay his legal bills? why couldn't he as a trump inc employee pay the legal bills? >> let me push back on you. isn't bob mueller showing he's the great equalizer. manafort was willing to stay loyal. here's the deal. if you have any evidence about trump committing crimes, mueller is coming for you whether you're loyal or not. >> i'm not even as interested in michael cohen as i am michael flynn. his sentencing date was set for december 18th. some are speculating that his period of cooperation is over and the mueller investigation has elicited info...

Question. it seems like whether you're loyal or not. if you have testimony mueller wants, he's going to get it. >> he is going to get it. it's not simply the disloyalty, though that's really been vivid, but cohen is going to be sentenced december 12th. he has series charges hanging over him. on flynn, it does indicate he's done with him. usually you'd keep him around if he might need to testify. but in all of these, we're find with manafort, cohen, et cetera, mueller has belt and suspendered everything. we have the testimony from weisselberg and pecker on what cohen has to say in general. you ...

Justice. that's a theory that applies to multiple witnesses starting with steele and moving forward, including manafort. if they've endorsed that theory, that's going to get a lot of play probably in the report. >> nick confisore, what do you think of this abc news report. it's important to go back to trump tells. and we know from donald trump that the original raid on cohen's offices was perhaps the gravest injustice that he's perceived so far. he called it an attack on the nation the day his lawyer and fixer's offices and homes were raided. >> they've got to be sweating over there. 12 hours ...

And also as with manafort, mueller has -- holds all the cards. right now he's made no promises about whether he'll give him any credit for cooperating. same as with manafort and both men have to give it all up and hope for the best. and in cohen's case, that is really a wealth of things in russia. he's in the steele dossier, he's in the attempt to form a trump tower in moscow and also dating back ten more years on the financial side. >> and it would seem this is the first i've seen that mueller's team is interested in talking to michael cohen about pardons. that seems to me that maybe they're ...

And transactions for real estate over the years. >> everyone in washington knew paul manafort had worked for the worst russian oligarchs and anti anti-ukrainians who were part russian stooges and so forth, and it was such a mind-boggling appointment that he thought he could get out of that. but in particular the close relations to a lot of the same oligarchs who sort of funded directly or indirectly trump. for me manafort is big tell. you can say he didn't have some of the normal guards, but he also felt a kind of kinship with manafort. >> let me ask you to weigh in on that. i haven't seen you...