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Trying to give women the right to vote to try to achieve equality. you use an unequal system to achieve it. same with african-americans in the 15th amendment. when only whites would vote, it took whites to get together to make that real. but the point is that the inperfect system has to be made better by using the system. so i think we should not have a system where campaigns -- where super pacs can raise unlimited amounts of money to support campaigns to oppose campaigns. that's not to say i oppose pacs. limited pacs are a good thing. but we're going to use the rules the way the system is now...

But the point is that the inperfect system has to be made better by using the system. so i think we should not have a system where campaigns -- where super pacs can raise unlimited amounts of money to support campaigns to oppose campaigns. that's not to say i oppose pacs. limited pacs are a good thing. but we're going to use the rules the way the system is now to achieve a system which it is closer to the ideas of what a more perfect democracy will be. >> here is the bigger challenge in raising money. you're a charismatic person, the idea has an appeal to it. it strikes me a more difficult cha...