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Best friend. this is a circus. probably technically, they ought to go after him on the grounds of perjury. on the other hand the guys pathetic! he is a ready been convicted, already going to jail. i don't know if you need an extra pound of flesh. he is a fool! he shouldn't be on the national stage. chris: okay! strong to follow. if michael cohen lied. and i we less equivocal about this than the speaker is. it sure looks like he lied. does it discredit everything also he has said in the hours of testimony about donald trump? >> no. because he clearly admits to having lied. he pled guilty. this ...

Best friend. this is a circus. probably technically, they ought to go after him on the grounds of perjury. on the other hand the guys pathetic! he is a ready been convicted, already going to jail. i don't know if you need an extra pound of flesh. he is a fool! he shouldn't be on the national stage. chris: okay! strong to follow. if michael cohen lied. and i we less equivocal about this than the speaker is. it sure looks like he lied. does it discredit everything also he has said in the hours of testimony about donald trump? >> no. because he clearly admits to having lied. he pled guilty. this ...

He was the inside guy. and he is really subjected to tremendous pressure if it is found that he lied again. chris: jonathan, let me pick up on this because you got good sources in the white house. how upset are they about what michael cohen told the house oversight committee and the kind of red crimes he laid out to further investigations? >> the thing disturbing the most is when he gives inside information about the trump organization and seems to lead investigators down the path. when he said, it didn't pick up as much attention as other things he said when alexandria ocasio-cortez was quest...

General. he's got a homeland security secretary that he does not confidence in him now is that a knack defense secretary that is a recipe for disaster. the key national security cabinet. leland: what is the disaster that's a recipe for? >> the concern i have a nice matt webb now acting secretary shanahan, he's smart. he's the inside guy. i asked him what is your relationship between artist in you. mattis is the outside guy. he's got the strategic know-how. he understands the military force. he understands no terry families. shanahan comes your ministry. he may be good and what he focused his a...

Potentially that comes down the line. it is incredibly stupid and he now is facing the rest of his life in jail, unless he gets a pardon, but now we know that he was giving information about trump and that the special counsel is interested, of course, in trump. it becomes much more politically difficult for donald trump to pardon paul manafort. if he were to do that right now, you know that the reason is because paul manafort was his inside guy, and it is just beyond any scope and realm of propriety for the president to do something like that. >> do you suspect as you look at this, let's pull ...