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Whelan was involved in intelligence. so the doors never closed. the russians always do transaction. i think part of the sticking point is in which they're insisting on how they categorize paul whelan. >> if they categorize paul whelan as an intelligence asset, they're going to demand a high priority intelligence asset didn't return. the biden white house is under some amount of scrutiny if not outright criticism for the asymmetry of the trade they just made, victor brick for britney griner. brittney griner literally had nothing, no reason to be in a russian penal colony. victor bout did have a...

Back with the panel. tom. >> i think lindsey graham is actually being too kind when he called the story b.s. earlier. this was an abomination, what cnn did here. the story was long, complicated and all of it took place or most of it took place in 2016 before trump even took office. they asked the spy, they try to get a malcolm he said no, and then they went back to him after they administration -- the obama administration had released this public report on how russia had interfered with the election and they were concerned his safety and then went back and got him out. trump had nothing to do ...

What do you make of the news and the extraction of this covert agent? >> this has got to be devastating for the intelligence community not because of the political angle and president trump, but the ability to get insights into a closed society like the kremlin at a senior level is really tough. we're not talking about looking at russian troops on the ground in syria, intercepting communications. we're talking about somebody who might have enabled you to get inside the head of what vladimir putin was thinking. that is really difficult to get, not going to be a backup for an informant, a source...

Administration. i think we all have different now shock response mechanisms to donald trump. i can't think of anything he has said as president that is -- that more violates the trust that that job has imposed on him. to actually say he would not have used this intelligence asset, kim jong-un's half brother, would not have used that as a cia asset. what was your reaction to that today? >> this has so many disastrous implications, lawrence. obviously if the president of the united states is into kim jong-un, i have news for him, kim jong-un is just not that into you. he is playing you for all t...

And wendy sherman, i want to begin with you. you have experience dealing with north korea when you were working back in the clinton administration. i think we all have different now shock response mechanisms to donald trump. i can't think of anything he has said as president that is -- that more violates the trust that that job has imposed on him. to actually say he would not have used this intelligence asset, kim jong-un's half brother, would not have used that as a cia asset. what was your reaction to that today? >> this has so many disastrous implications, lawrence. obviously if the preside...