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Civilians out of some of these cities. but it's not like a negotiation. >> on the defense side, i think we should all welcome the fact that the europeans want to step up more, but i don't think we should worry about them doing that significantly out side of the nato context. there just isn't the money or the capacity to do that. >> yeah. >> this is more i think talk. there are some implications for defense industrial policy and, you know, getting into details. but in the long run, this is good. >> i do want to, before we go, some reporting just in the last couple days, inside russia putin's li...

Reason to give iraq the margin of democracy. this was a major part of the argument for iraq, and this guy totally lied. do you not want to reach through that screen and strangle that guy? >> you know, the intelligence community created the national intelligence estimate. colin powell is an honorable man. he understood intelligence products. he worked hard to prepare those remarks to the united nations. he believed every word he said and what he was basing -- >> of course he did. he said, look, go ask the defense intelligence agency. you're as close as i can get. how did this guy's information ...

That screen and strangle that guy? >> you know, the intelligence community created the national intelligence estimate. colin powell is an honorable man. he understood intelligence products. he worked hard to prepare those remarks to the united nations. he believed every word he said and what he was basing -- >> of course he did. he said, look, go ask the defense intelligence agency. you're as close as i can get. how did this guy's information become gospel when in fact he was completely lying, and by the way, the german sources who turned this over said we don't think the guy is reliable, but ...