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Countries uncover stories and bring to light information that they used to policies. and it can be a vital resource not only to the american public, but to provide evidence and bear witness in places where, you know, government officials can't necessarily go. >> no, that's absolutely true. and anderson, i need to be very careful leer. . no one needs to think that american journalists are in some ways agents of the american intelligence enterprise. i but i've got a lot of time. i used to fly into sarajevo during the war. and one of the things i always tried to do was sit down in the bar of the ...

Thought it wouldn't do any good in the first place. so you see a general erosion of the ethic of the intelligence enterprise. >> you paint a very dire picture. i just want to push you a little bit. what is the next logical consequence if the agents aren't supported and if their product isn't trusted, and if the ally isn't inspired to share, what is the next obvious consequence? >> the consequence is american intelligence has a smaller contribution to make to the development of american policy. look, i don't want to be apocalyptic here, nicole. i used the word "erosion" before and that's probab...

And the point i would then make, nicole, to the question you just raised, there are probably a whole bunch of allied services who might be reluctant to share information with us because, you know, we don't have that great a track record about keeping things secret. and they would be even more reluctant to share the information with us if they thought it wouldn't do any good in the first place. so you see a general erosion of the ethic of the intelligence enterprise. >> you paint a very dire picture. i just want to push you a little bit. what is the next logical consequence if the agents aren't...

Agency. i've also known chuck for a long period of time as well and i had the opportunity to work with him closely, particularly in his capacity as chairman of the president's intelligence advisory board. i greatly appreciate the work he has done to strengthen our intelligence enterprise. it has been extremely important to our ability to improve our intelligence capabilities. and as secretary of defense, i also benefitted from his work when he served on our defense policy board. chuck hagel is a patriot, he's a decorated combat veteran and he is a dedicated public servant. i believe his experi...