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Ground in syria. raids like this that gather that type of inform it and leverage it and we need to be doing more. we need to have better insight into what this threat is doing in their backyard. as long as we continue to allow them to have a safe haven to operate, they are going to continually be a threat. >> i want to talk to you about the intelligence that would be gathered. you have been involved in these kind of special operations in the clandestine service. we know the guy they were trying to get is dead. at least we think that's who they were trying to get. maybe there's a bigger fish th...

Do you think for intelligence purposes it's better to shut the accounts down or is it better to keep them open so the u.s. and other western intelligence agencies to monitor them? >> it's better to shut down. this has been a big debate for a long time. there are concerns on both sides. the intelligence value versus the others. you have foreign fighters who have gone to iraq and syria than went to afghanistan during the war. it has been an enormous magnet. it has helped radical groups to dominate within syria. we can really see now the power of social networking in terms of mobilizing people to...

Was actual torture by any other definition? >> no, i felt the measures were tough. i knew we would pay someday. by the sort of water cooler at the cia, we talked about it all the time, what we called endgame. we began conversations with the white house saying, when the prisoners we hold no longer have intelligence value, what do we do with them? we are not jailers, we are interrogators and professionals. we knew part of that endgame would be judgments about us and judgments that history would make without living in the time. the biggest problem is not documentary evidence that's reviewed by a ...

Consequences and the behavioral science says in interrogating al qaeda suspects, there's a study by lawrence ellison at the university of liverpool, 181 interrogations of al qaeda-related terrorists showed that empathy, respect, and an adaptive approach ended up systematically reducing counter interrogation strategies. so that's -- >> and that generally is when you did interrogations, oversaw interrogations, that was the approach you took. >> yes. >> it's sort of like a, for lack of a better word, friendly approach. because i can hear people's hair raising all over going wait a second. >> righ...

The idea that somehow or another these techniques -- we knew about canary wharf and heathrow and on military bases abroad from people who were subjected to these techniques and provided useful information. >> you know, brennan doubled down on that. he said for someone to say there was no intelligence value that came from those detainees once subjected to those enhanced interrogation techniques lacks any foundation at all. he said again that he wishes they just asked someone who was actually there at the time in the c.i.a. practicing these interrogation techniques, someone who knows that quite ...