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Experience know it's actually illegal illegal to lie to the fbi? it almost seems like you don't have to have a law enforcement background to know you shouldn't lie to federal agents. >> i was thinking about this as i read through the documents today and i did thousands of these kind of interviews and i don't ever remember once having to remind somebody of that notion. you know, there's a difference between this as well and a miranda warning, which you do after someone's been arrested. but, you know, the other part of this interview process that is peculiar to me is while they had -- while mike...

Himself? >> in overseeing the russia probe? probably not, although, i think that's an open question and it will depend on some of the answers to questions at hearings which makes this very different than whitaker, where there will be a confirmation process where he'll be asked hopefully tough questions. first of all, if he learned anything about the russia probe that wouldn't already be, you know, known to the public through that interview process, that could be a problem. the fact that he made this comment about comey, i mean, i think he has to be asked tough questions about it. he didn't kno...

Thing. he served under the first attorney general for president h.w. bush. he is very highly regarded. a sense he served as attorney general, he served in a number of different posts in the private sector as experienced in house. a private law firm, he has represented clients. a wealth of experience. very high regard for the justice department. he was thought very highly of by the people who worked there. i served under him when i was in the southern district of new york. >> charles: president trump had a serious problem with jeff sessions from the very beginning. it was clear that there were ...

Think? >> i thought, how stupid can paul manafort be. because a plea deal, a cooperation agreement is a chance to reduce a very long sentence he was facing. >> right. >> that was his ticket out to spend some time out of prison. that deal is now torn up. he's going to get a very long sentence, unless he gets a pardon. obviously the question of the pardon hangs over this. we don't know what his chance are. but certainly, he threw away a very big opportunity. >> does this complicate things also for the special counsel, michael, as jeffrey says, if they now call him a liar, is the information that...

Roberts is. you know how he happens to be on many legal issues on the more conservative side of jurisprudence. what does it tell you? >> it tills ell us that donald has crossed the line for justice roberts. it's not a new line. this is the donald trump that attacked a federal judge for making a ruling based on his mexican heritage and suggesting that somehow he was not able to make independent decisions because of his mexican heritage. it's far from the first time i'd say donald trump's attack on an independent judiciary are second only to his attack ons the nes media. i'm wondering what the i...