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That people who make millions of dollars make millions of dollars in wages. the point you're making is, you can say, okay, a certain percentage of the economy, this per taj of the economy that goes to wages is constant. but within that thing, there are massively different distributions. your second point? >> second point. we ought to be discussing not only what is the problem in a society that sees suddenly over recent years, and i think we all agree on that, a disproportionate increase relative to wages even allowing for all of that, why do we permit this to happen? it was rising before the c...

Job, you are poor. but it's that you are poor, you can't buy the employment security of a contract. you can't accept the low wage that you have to accept. >> there is also the problem, though, about bargain. and, in fact, in some cases it's actually -- i remember looking at a case of truck drivers that were trying to organize and actually running up against the sherman anti-trust contract. there are certain ways in which they can't collude and it's unclear how much bargaining power you can achieve. bargaining power has, historically, been very connected. >> it's the only thing -- bargaining po...

Devote yourself to giving new ideas and creating things and stuff like that. you could make a living as a writer if you could tap copywriting. >> i'm with susan. it doesn't have to be all or nothing. i think it's essentially a good idea but it's gone too far. it's not just with the internet or the media. my dad is a farmer and one of the things that drives him completely crazy is the patent on seeds and fertilizers. >> that's a huge problem for america. that means that the publishers, the people who have put themselves in the middle are making all of the profits and we need americans to do bet...

Problem worse and that lowers the return to investing in a heavy industry, that lowers the average real interest rate and the problem that they face is that the real interest rate is negative and that makes it difficult for us to achieve full employment. so you're making that problem harder by taxing carbon. >> so we don't have to have one -- >> i think that's totally wrong. >> when you have a low real interest rate, typically you get a lot of growth and a lot of employment. >> he's talking about a negative interest rate. >> yeah, but a real interest rate. what a carbon tax will do is drive ac...

This is not stock, not money given to owners. >> firms sitting on cash waiting to invest. they are waiting for cues. tacking them, taxing carbon would help give cues to drive investment into clean energy. another way -- >> they are very skeptical about clean energy. you also have to realize it's a terrible investment for the past decade. this is not an easy problem. >> one of the problems is lack of markets. the government could do a lot to fix that by consuming clean energy and vehicles. the federal government is in the u.s. is the single largest consumer of clean energy. if you add state and...