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Then you have major moral hazards. and the politicians do, too. >> are you referring to fanny and freddie? >> a lot of the europe european state-owned bank have a huge crisis. it's the tip of the iceberg is the european financial and political crisis but underneath that is a huge banking crisis that hasn't fully been resolved and that was driven a lot by the german and london banks that allowed them to do stupid things. they were more leveraged than a lot of the bank and that's argument one and argument two is fanny and freddie. i don't see them as the heart of darkness in the financial crisis...

Means of production and so forth. >> it strikes me that what you're describing is a problem of political power. this isn't a technical problem that planners can achieve. there are large firms organized that way because it's profitable and social movements have to force government to check and regulate the capital. >> let me ask you this. >> and also channel investment into new green technology to write off the old -- >> let's talk about this. let's imagine that we have a situation in which we have a real genuine carbon price. >> we have that with current epa. >> with the current epa laws. >> i...

Of economic update and susan crawford, author of the book, "captive audience." great to have you here. >> great to be here. thanks so much. >> so since this is your area of expertise, lee start with you. is our i.p. regime a total disaster. >> this was a great idea at the outset, giving people a limited time in which they own it and exploit it. >> when you step through that logic a little more, why should the government grant -- i come up with an idea and the government grants me an exclusive monopoly over a small period of time. why should the government do that? >> there is deep concern abou...

One is that they were running out of resources and running out of sinks. we have found more oil, we find more resources. they have been correct in terms of the earth capacity to absorb pollution. >> what does sink mean? >> a place to put the ability to absorb -- >> the ocean has absorbed enormous amounts of c02. they were right about the plilis of the earth's ability to absorb this. but there's a problem with the rhetoric are of describing the economy only in term of growth because that conflicts all sorts of activities. if we confront climate change, to replace the fossil fuel energy is going...

Growth of the american economy because the problem is, with juliet, what you said before, countries take a huge economic nosedive. the problem in selling it is precisely going around and telling people, hey, great news. we're going to tank the economy. >> i am actually a technology ee van gentlem evangelist. i think an economy with bright innovators, which happens to be the case with the united states, i think you can effective do what germany has done and actually having a high tax is not a problem, right? one of the central political problems in the united states is you have to raise tax rev...