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And then that fell apart and they turned to the irs where there was actually some improper activity going on so they had a little bit more smoke to deal with and they make a big deal and outlandish charges and people hear about it. and it actually cuts through. the irs controversy when it began was very real and had people very concerned even the white house. so, they exploited this to the maximum and you see the results in the polls. you know, some ways, you know, in washington if you are willing to lie and say things that aren't true, it often rebounds to your -- to your benefit. it doesn't ...

Mindset is the same, valuable, worthwhile for them to take our information. that effort continues. >> shepard: should we be worried? >> we should be. >> shepard: the woman in the library is hilarious to me. >> well, this is a -- one of those things where you look at richard reed and say the shoe bomber. you look at these people and say really? they don't fit the mold of a soviet spy but this was important for the russians and typical in a sense. they and chinese and others are patient in how they do things. they bury assets deep into our fabric and it's a sleeper operation. they give them time...