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Your first reaction would be could this be true? and then you would discover it is true and move on from there. i don't want to overstate because obviously there is a lot we don't know. we don't know the exact content of the conversation. we don't know the objective that was stated from the kushner side during the conversation. those things we don't know. but i can't keep out of my mind the thought that if an american intelligence officer had done anything like this, we'd consider it espionage. >> yeah. would bit fair to say that a conversation like that, even if it wasn't -- even if the plan ...

We don't know the objective that was stated from the kushner side during the conversation. those things we don't know. but i can't keep out of my mind the thought that if an american intelligence officer had done anything like this, we'd consider it espionage. >> yeah. would it be fair to say that a conversation like that, even if it wasn't -- even if the plan wasn't executed, gives the russians the feeling that they own jared kushner. they own a person from that point forward who would make a suggestion like this? >> i think, you know, we're all struggling to understand. a couple of thoughts ...

We don't know the objective that was stated from the kushner side during the conversation. those things we don't know. but i can't keep out of my mind the thought that if an american intelligence officer had done anything like this, we'd consider it espionage. >> yeah. would it be fair to say that a conversation like that, even if it wasn't -- even if the plan wasn't executed, gives the russians the feeling that they own jared kushner. they own a person from that point forward who would make a suggestion like this? >> i think, you know, we're all struggling to understand. a couple of thoughts ...

People are going to want to ask, because as adam schiff said today, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence. and even though it is circumstantial and everybody wants to play lawyer on this, it brings to us and the intelligence community and jim comey who has to deal with that, with the counterintelligence teams is why? whys would there all of this contact and communication which we know exists, some of the people have admitted it themselves, with people in the russian oligarchy, was it financial? was it espionage? these are questions which will have to be investigated and there is no running...

Basement in moscow or coming from somewhere in romania, ukraine or somewhere else by distant servers by solo players. >> martha: this is not something that has happened once or twice and it will continue to happen and it will happen to republicans and all sides before we're through. >> i was in the bush administration. my personal information was hacked into by the chinese i think director clapper called it espionage. what happened then? what were the consequences? were chinese diplomats thrown out for doing this? since 9/11 the cry has been we failed to connect the dots. everything the democr...