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Phil mattingly, thank you so much. Dana bash who used to run up and down those halls for years and years and years. Phil has talked to folks on both sides of the aisle. Confident that the house will get to this and nancy pelosi was so key in brokering this deal why is she standing there now for fourplus hours and saying no . I saw you write that down and because youre you, is why you picked up what you did about nancy pelosi. To people at home, it makes no sense. Not at all. Because shes getting attention for the issue shes upset is not in there. She understood because she is as sort of season...

Rid of this hereditary barrier to occupancy of the white house, that is, race? >> during the obama candidacy, there was a word that was in vogue. there were a lot of people, people of influence, talking about the notion that america might be entering a post-racial status. post-racial is an interesting word. it was a new word. it was not part of the american vernacular. it's interesting why we as a society embraced that word. was it hope that maybe race would be less important? was it hubris? were we deluded? >> i think that when you study history, every time we made a step forward, there was a...

Allowed the oversight committee and us to do our investigation unimpeded by the prospect of executive privilege we can get at the email. we can get at the documents. now we can bring witnesses in and have hearings and so forth. why do you think, when we're all playing this out the way things have gone in the last four years, there is an assumption with me and some other people who thought there will be some injunction forgetting these notes released, that they will act on. it and they did. is it hubris, do they think that there's anything wrong with it? how do you think that these notes one fr...

♪ otezla. show more of you. welcome back. in our last episode of keeping up with the president's legal strategy, the lawyers were telling the client, don't do it. as in, don't grant an interview to the special counsel robert mueller. today, a new plot twist. call it hubris, conviction, or naivety, the president is raising the possibility he'll ignore his counsel and do it anyway. quote, he thinks he can work this, a source familiar with the president's thinking tells cnn. he doesn't realize how high the stakes are. cnn's sara murray broke this story and joins us now. seems everyone in the ...

Especially in a case like this. this is not the beginning of the investigation where the special counsel's office is simply trying to gather they already have a lot of facts. the purpose is to confront him with those facts. the missing link is the intent of the president. the only way the special counsel's office really gets to that intent is to interview the president. so there's no legal reason for doing it. any lawyer worth his salt or her salt would never let the president go into an interview like that. >> so you talked about your different kinds of clients who went in and thought they co...