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You stand on that issue? well, i mean, ithink, you know, that if things have been wrongly taken, they should be given back. you know, i mean, i'm very clear on that. but i would say my work is a form of poetic restitution. i see it as something which is thinking about the nuances around these sorts of questions. but i think there's something that's very important about the acknowledgement of certain violence that takes place at a particular time, and how those need to be, in a way, returned to their rightful owners. i think that's very important. but there are lots of other questions, i think,...

I think. interesting. cos you moved to the united states in the mid—�*90s and, as you say, you took up teaching posts at the university of california, you also had a stint at harvard university. but your profile, as we said, has been lower here in the uk than it has been in the us, where you're something of a superstar. but what do you think that tells us about the difference in attitudes towards race between the uk and the us? does it tell you anything? well, ithink, you know, in the uk, of course, there's been this sort of, if you like... well, you know, i could call myself a kind of bre...

Overly masculine, and so on. so, do you think it is harder being black and gay? well, ithink, you know, that when one's growing up, getting to understand that is, of course, complicated, and making a sense of your identity becomes part, really, of an articulation for surviving. but i think one of the things which is really very important is really, then, how you begin to create a sort of, in a way, self image or reflection of oneself, which can, in a way, endure. and, in a way, i think making a film like looking for langston was very much about making a film that would somehow both give voice ...

Of your subject matter, and i'm thinking here about your 2010 nine—screen extravaganza, called ten thousand waves, which was about the drowning of more than 20 chinese immigrants off the coast of northern england nearly 20 years ago. and you call that mobile spectatorship. but what are you trying to tell spectators there about the issue of migration and why do you call it mobile spectatorship? well, i mean, ithink one of the things about the morecambe bay tragedy was that, you know, these 23, 2a chinese cockle—pickers died and had come from such a long distance to meet these tragic ends. a...

Brought down in bristol. precisely. and i think, in a way, kind of, like, out of the spirit of black lives matter, that event occurred and, in a way, it did create a kind of lightning rod in correspondence to all of the things that were happening in this period. but we're talking about kwasi kwarteng saying people should learn more about the empire — but in 2022, you accepted a knighthood. i don't need to remind you that it's kbe, knight of the british empire. you said at the time it was really problematic. why was that the case and why did you accept it? well, i mean, ithink there's a way i...