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Ahead and pass it regardless of whether it adds up exactly or not. >> maya, take us to school. why not pay for it? most people would be off by a gazillion. >> give or take a gazillion. i'll disagree with jason. here is why. interest rates are low. that means it is easier to borrow than otherwise would be. the good news. the bad news is the government has a plan if we do nothing else. borrow for nothing else, to borrow $13 trillion over the next decade. that is the reason our debt relative to the economy is likely to be growing. that's while interesting rates are relatively low. likely to go up...

What is ron talking about when he says this will cost zero? >> well, the white house has put out a really impressive objective which is this bill will be fully paid for. the problem is, the policy coming from congress right now, is not getting close to that objective. the white house, to its credit, put out a full list of policies that would have paid for this bill. what we are looking at is all of the great things in the spending bill. now the members of congress are looking at the pay fors and saying not comfortable with that. the whole thing is watered down. the question is will they find m...

$3.5 trillion. do you think it goes through? >> i certainly hope so. we have a lot of unmet needs in our country. i'm more worried about the fact the united states is one of the lowest preschool attendance rates of the rich countries than i am about the debt. if we make that adjustment. >> we will soon find out. jason and maya, thank you. before we go to break, child care say huge part of it. long before covid, parents have been and still are struggling to work and take care of their kids. treasury secretary janet yellen and vice president harris spoke about it yesterday. for the secretary, ...

The budget and in a dangerous way and have a negative effect on the economy. it is not prudent to borrow until we hit the limit and then figure out how to pay the cost. we are already paying $300 billion plus every year. that will trickle over the next decade. if rates went up more or borrowing goes up more, that will increase. that leaves us vulnerable to the next big emergency where we should borrow. it was important we borrowed for covid. we have to borrow for future emergencies. we don't want to push ourselves. that is what we should do. we made a huge mistake in borrowing for covid for th...