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Plus unemployment rate is a real number. basically number of people would like a job and are looking and can't find one right now. there are a larger number of underemployed workers or stopped working which is somewhere 15%. all of it kind of feeds into the same thing, a very sluggish and stubbornly unresponsive labor picture. one still showing positive job growth in the private sector. jenna: jeffrey one of reasons why the unemployment rate has come down because labor participation has dropped. the labor force is smaller. lee wants to know, why is labor participation going down? is it workers...

The unemployment rate shows one thing, fall from 8.3% to 8.1% is pretty good. that is usually what the political economy models say get a president re-elected trend in unemployment rate in months or year before office yet jobs number or employment number disappointing if you look at total jobs rather than private sector jobs. jenna: steve, to jeffrey's point, trend looks better. if you draw a line the unemployment rate is coming down. >> the problem with that, jenna, look what happened this month, i was just raking through the new report before we came on. there was about a 360,000 person redu...

It is tremendous cuts in spending f we go over that fiscal cliff on january 1st, even get close to it, that will send us back into recession. jenna: wow! we would like to avoid any and all cliffs on this show just for the record. just in general. mike and steve and jeffrey, thank you for the time today. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thanks. jon: we also like to avoid all recessions too. jenna: keep it on the road, right, jon? somewhere else. not here, please. hey, the head of the democratic national committee, shauls shauls dish debbie wasserman schultz joins us next.