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Fundamentally the way most people in a secular society think. mark: and yet, you aggressively from an intellectual point of view, battle the atheists, which is your point, who insist that god does not exist, and what you seem to be saying is look, i don't know, but i can't reject it out of hand, and i can't embrace what you're selling as a replacement. is that about right? >> that's absolutely the way i feel. i do battle with the atheists, that's a wonderfully vivid image, chiefly because i think there are wind bags, and if they were arguing another position, do i battle with it. mark: harris?...

Fundamentally the way most people in a secular society think. mark: and yet, you aggressively from an intellectual point of view, battle the atheists, which is your point, who insist that god does not exist, and what you seem to be saying is look, i don't know, but i can't reject it out of hand, and i can't embrace what you're selling as a replacement. is that about right? >> that's absolutely the way i feel. i do battle with the atheists, that's a wonderfully vivid image, chiefly because i think there are wind bags, and if they were arguing another position, do i battle with it. mark: harris?...