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This is all or nothing for him and why would you play chicken with someone like that? he's just going to go all out so it's incredibly risky. i would just like to be a little more measured. you give them things here, we give them things there, ramp up, see how russia reacts. because if we just start sending air crafts into that war zone, what happens if that pilot engages a russian anti aircraft battalion down on the ground. so we're taking out russian anti aircraft in russian proper or belarus? that's how you have to defend yourself in the sky. i'm afraid of this spiralling out of control. we...

What is next phase for them? >> i think the trouble when you go down this thing, it's like -- we used to have these things long before television, 80 years ago when there would supposedly be a 5-year-old boy trapped in a well. and the media would come out around the -- camp out around the well to wait for the little boy to be rescued. that was dramatic. but if there is no little 7-year-old in the well, if there actually is nothing there, then all you have done in the long run i think is destroyed yourself. to go back to the malaysian jet thing. they actually are in this case, they are the -- d...

What is the next ways for them? >> i think the trouble when you go down this thing -- it's like, we used to have these things long before television. 80 years ago, when there where supposedly be a 5-year-old boy trapped in a well, and the media would camp out around the well to wait for the little boy to be rescued, and that was dramatic in a sob story way. but if there is no little 7-year-old in the well, if there actually is nothing there, then, all you have done in the long run, i think, is destroyed yourself. you go back to that malaysian jet thing, they actually are, in this case, they ar...

What is the next ways for them? >> i think the trouble when you go down this thing -- it's like, we used to have these things long before television. 80 years ago, when there where supposedly be a 5-year-old boy trapped in a well, and the media would camp out around the well to wait for the little boy to be rescued, and that was dramatic in a sob story way. but if there is no little 7-year-old in the well, if there actually is nothing there, then, all you have done in the long run, i think, is destroyed yourself. you go back to that malaysian jet thing, they actually are, in this case, they ar...

I think it's a bunch of malarkey. i think the money could be better spent in other places especially if you're helping people. you don't need a bentley to ride people around. go get yourself a prius or yukon. >> how would he defend himself if he was here? he's not the only mega church pastor -- >> this whole jet thing is not -- it does not make sense. on a g-650 or whatever you can't really take supplies. i would imagine that delta or any other person any other company lockheed martin or anyone with a cargo jet, if he's going to do good -- >> they would say oh, my gosh, we would love to do thi...