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Day in and day out here, at the end of the day, this is a television show. these hearings, as we've seen with the mueller, as we saw wit. the republicans made it clear, they're going to continue to obstruct. they'll do procedural shenanigans and make it challenging for democrats at these hearings and try to distract them. it's up to the democrats to see if they can control the hearing, control the narrative. if the witnesses allowed to tell the stories they told in the depositions will be incredibly damaging. a big tipping point will be if they can get pompeo, mulvaney, rudy giuliani, central ...

Part of the trump base that would go, we're going to go along with this stuff. swallow the fact that turns out mexico paying for the wall has a scam. other stuff about charlottesville but we're going to draw the line at pardoning people who have broken the law. that is not going to be the red line for a lot of the trump base and once again, it's going to be interesting to see what will the reaction be of congression al republicans to the transgender ban. remember when he tweeted it out, he got a lot of push back, a lot of people in congress said this is a bad idea, sends wrong message. what wi...

Government that we can be thankful for. >> jill, what is your sense of given the news that we started this hour with, as we come down to the final stretch here, of where -- how close are they on mueller, on the mueller side of this? you've got a midnight raid or a dawn raid of paul manafort. you have business associates of him, part of that $60 million contract coming before a grand jury. it does seem like things are closing in on that respect. >> it's very hard ever to predict even when you're the prosecutor with all the knowledge how fast you will be able to wrap up an investigation. and non...

The russians were successful, this was a fail ewe and there should be something akin to a 9/11 commission to understand what happened and more importantly, how to fix it. >> jill, on the earlier story we started this block with ken saying mueller is now compelling testimony, subpoenaing actual testimony before the grand jury of associates, how big a step is that? >> it's the next logical step. it's what would normally happen in an investigation. but i do want to go back to your last question. because i really do feel and have felt from the beginning, that the underlying crime here skipping ahe...

Influence policy while that might have been there on the tv side, not so sure what he did. clearly as richard and jill have said, he was a polarizing figure in the sense there's an appeal to this fringe element of white supremacists and nazis and clearly, he had an appeal to them. he was someone caught wearing if i recall correctly, a symbol that harked back to the sort of hungarian nazi connection. these are not the people we need in the white house to represent our government. >> talking about this sort of importance of information getting to the president, what do you make of what do you ma...