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Because the way i view it is, workers now have freedom to choose. >> hang on. are you serious? are you serious? this is not anti-unions? at its core, undermines the ability for unions to organize. you can make any argument you like -- >> all right, richard. let's let him answer the question. >> this does not deal with organizing or collective bargaining, this has nothing to do with the relationship between an employer and union. this is about the relationship between unions and workers. and this is about giving workers the freedom to choose, and unions have to be in a position to present a goo...

Debate with george w. bush. >> you're right. you're right. >> carl, do you have a question for the governor and not a statement? >> yes. >> sure. >> 15 seconds. >> i have a question. >> governor, let's see how this works. >> i have a loaded question. >> we're holding our -- no. >> my loaded question would be, how do you distinguish your position on this from a real question about the welfare of workers in a state that historically unions have had a huge role in and in making michigan a better place? >> that's a great question. governor. >> and political warfare. versus cultural and political w...

>> but there were a number of forces at work. >> look at rhode island. look where unions have been the strongest. look at the shuttered factories. i'm not being anti-union here. i'm pro-union. i want factories in connecticut, in rhode island, in massachusetts, across new england reopened. but the jobs from overseas, they're not going there. they're not going there because of work force rules that i think even trump told me were outdated and outmoded. >> is our education system outdated? >> no. >> our union advocacy, is that outdated, how they go about fighting for it? i don't know. that questi...

Freedom. here's another side. unions have played a big role of people having their rights protected, as you well know, to ensure that safety standards are -- >> okay, but that's not answering my question, harold. >> union dues are used for that purpose also. >> but you can't take that money from me if i don't want to give it to you. >> this is all about -- but this is about political purposes. political purposes. so there's a broad set of reasons that these dollars are used for. >> you're still taking it from my pocket and i don't want to give it. >> we're making your workplace better. we're e...

Or not. >> right. >> i asked bob riley, i've said this 1,000 times, it seems extraordinarily important if you're a union member in the northeast, and like me, you want your factories running again. i asked bob riley, i don't understand, why did mercedes go to tuscaloosa county, alabama, instead of filling up the factories in connecticut? 15 minutes away from yale. or in rhode island. 20 minutes away from brown. i mean, right by some of the most highly trained, brilliant minds in the world. that's easy. the work force rules are so insane there, there's no way that mercedes or bmw or airbus woul...