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Care debate with emergency rooms and so forth. >> in other words, you didn't put any money in, you're getting the higher wage and the benefits the guys who paid the money are receiving, you're still getting them, but you didn't pay for them. it's a free rider system. >> i mean, there are closed shops, there are open shops, right? that decision can be made there, correct? >> yeah. i think. >> if i'm a union guy or woman, i'd say, okay, well, let's negotiate for union members. >> yeah. >> and union members will be put on a different -- put in a different category, and we'll give them training, h...

Class for the last 50 years, or the 50 years after world war ii was something called the high-wage middle-skilled job. but the relentless march of globalization and technology is really eliminating that. now there's only a high-wage, high-skilled job. and there's no answer other than certainly more education. i don't know what else we need. everyone's going to have to upgrade their skills. >> what does that mean for the future not only of unions but the future of the strong, vibrant middle class where people get living wages, they get health care, they get workplace safety. it seems like a ble...

Answered -- >> stronger middle class in union states. >> that's the question that has to be answered, what willie put out. i think there are other factors. >> rhetoric inside the capitol building was also heated. before the bill passed, democratic state representative douglas geist painted the repercussions in stark terms. >> we're going to pass something that will undo 100 years of labor relations. and there will be blood. there will be repercussions. we will relive the battle of the overpass. >> there will be blood. >> michigan house democrats twitter account even tweeted the comments later ...

Unions pay -- play an absolutely critical role, especially in an era where the rich are getting richer. the poor are getting poorer. ceo salaries have exploded over the past 25 years in a grotesque manner. >> so how well are they doing? >> unfortunately, though, union leverage is being stripped away by globalization, by an i.t. revolution, by outsourcing that certainly does -- >> but you asked the fundamental question earlier, and mike, one of you may have asked it, right-to-work states have, because governor snyder argued that this is an economic development and job development question, in r...