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Right now that is driving wages up. we need these policy interventions. >> but the correlation is inflation effect, and job killing effect in relation to raising the minimum wage, and can you address those issue sths. >> yes, this has always been the claim since 1938 when the minimum wage was first passed and we were told that we were moving toward socialism with the minimum wage, but the reality is that the very best research that has looked at 250 paired counties that are contiguous counties in states with differing minimum wages, and that has controlled for things like regional and economic...

The obama administration is going to ultimately keep its pledge. the problem, gretchen, if you raise taxes on upper income people, you ultimately will have a job killing effect rather than a job stimulating effect. >> that's coming from a democratic strategist. >> it's coming from a rationalist who is being fair and reasonable about the truth. what we need are tax breaks -- >> do my best to do it, rich. >> very fair and balanced. >> that's what we need. but the point is we need tax stimulate -- stimuli to create jobs. we need across-the-board freezes on things like payroll taxes to get jobs go...

Hiring people, we're not going hire as many people. it could be a scare tactic and they've heard from the same from mid and small business types, who insist the tax rate increase and the taxes are going to have the same job killing effect, but a lot of democrats, you've also indicated, said that was the same way that the clinton economic stimulus was greeted in 1993, the big differences, as you and i have discussed over the years between that and what's going on now. nevertheless, that's why democrats are saying, look, when all is said and done, we are going to be able to have, assuming this i...